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by | Nov 6, 2023

Ep. 10 | Fox Ahmed, Global Head of Cybersecurity & Technology and Data Protection Regulatory Risk, BNP Paribas

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Listen To Episode 10 Here:

Fox is the Global Head of Cybersecurity and Technology and Data Protection Regulatory Risk and has a background in Cybersecurity, Technology, Risk Management, and Change Management. In this role, Fox is responsible for ensuring the Group has an effective risk-based approach in integrating Governance, Compliance and Global Regulatory requirements into programmes and digital initiatives with a focus on Cybersecurity and Technology Risk Management.

He has over 20 years experience who has spent all his career working in Financial Services with the later part of his career in global leadership roles ranging from Change Management, Technology Risk Management, Vulnerability Management, Governance, Risk and Controls and Regulatory Advocacy.

Listen to our discussion now and be a part of the conversation!

Show Notes

Guest:

Fox Ahmed | LinkedIn

Sponsors:

C-Vision International

Salt Group

Audio Transcription

Charles James: And welcome to the autumn series of Cyber Glass Ceiling. My name is Charles James. In this series, we’ll be speaking to people around diversity, neurodiversity, as well as the challenges that leaders have in cyber security. Thank you for listening and enjoy.

Hello and welcome to my autumn series of Cyber Glass Ceiling, and today, With me I have a chap called Fox Ahmed. Fox was at RBS, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, and is now at BNP Paribas. Fox is Global Head of Cyber Technology Regulatory Risk for BNP Paribas. Welcome, Fox.

Fox Ahmed: Thank you, Charles. Thank you for inviting me to your autumn show.

Charles James: Thank you very much for coming. So, tell us a bit about yourself.

Fox Ahmed: So, a bit about myself. So, I grew up… I’m a Londoner grew up in the eighties in Hackney and there’s been, yeah, we can, we can go about the different challenges face from the eighties, nineties, early 2000 in terms of you know gain into the workforce from people from different kinds of geographic areas as well.

So I’m married three little boys, very young, keeping me very, busy weekends being a taxifier, taking them to football and afterschool tuition. And also they started shouting Kung Fu, so they’ve enjoyed doing that. So and since then, well, moved away from Hackney and live in Southeast London around Greenwich.

Charles James: Ah, so you’ve, you’ve upgraded a little bit, is it? I don’t know.

Fox Ahmed: Slightly, I would say.

Charles James: Obviously, I’m not from London, so, you know. I’ve, you know, I’m here for work, not even as a tourist, you know, restaurants, bars, and that’s it. But you know, it’s a great place to be. I love it because it is diverse. And again, we’ll touch on that as well.

But welcome to my autumn series of Cyber Glass Ceiling. We’re going to get into it in a little bit. We, we met, oh, blimey, a long while, a little while ago, wasn’t it? But we just kept in touch. That’s right. Knowing that you’re BNP, it’s sometimes a good thing cause I have a day job too as well. And I thought it was, oh yeah, Fox is a good guy to, to know.

And you’ll see from the pictures when we take some pictures, it’s pink shirt, fri- was it pink shirt thursday isn’t it?

Fox Ahmed: Pink shirt Thursday.

Charles James: So we’re both in pink shirts. But nevermind. So. Welcome, Fox. And my first question to you growing up in the 80s or 90s. So, yeah, I’m a bit older than you, which is not, not a surprise to anybody listening to this.

But what was your first job?

Fox Ahmed: So before I touch base on my first job, so I just want to… Put the story together for everyone who’s listening. So, so it was during, so back in the nineties when you’re in secondary school a lot of the schools kind of encourage kids who are in their kind of when they’re 15 just before they do their GCSEs to go do work experience.

So at that time there were a number of opportunities out there who wants to go work for retail, who wants to go, you know, a lot of my friends picked retail because at the time of the eighties, nineties, next Hugo Boss, Selfridges, Free Clothes. Oh yes. Absolutely. The aspiration was that, Oh, you know, they see the whole retail industry was blooming at the time, you know, Selfridges, Harrods as such.

So, so I’ve actually got into a work placement. For two weeks for a bank, not too far from where I am currently right now in Baker Street. Okay. And it was moving a bank and it was richly back then in the 90s, a lot of the banks have central, sorry, headquarters who were based locally. So decision making was done locally, so it was a retail bank, there was a lot of cash flow through retail banks, there wasn’t much electronic payments and stuff flowing around.

So, I managed to get into there. Look, went into the workforce of a bank for, wow, you know, everyone’s in suits. Everyone’s looking smart. There’s, you know, so much happening that you don’t see beyond, you know, the front wall of a retail bank, you know, so I’m there and a lot of, I met a lot of great people who were there.

They gave me the opportunity. I remember once to sit down in a room and count the cash that was there. to reconcile it. And I’m there as a 15 year old boy. Oh my gosh. There’s all this cash on the desk and there’s me pointing for the machine. I think I still remember the day it was 50, 000 pounds in cash and 15 year old boy, you’re like, wow.

So, and it was a test. Do you think they were testing you? It could be a test, but I think I’ve built enough trust equity in them to help, you know for them to reconcile the cash and stuff. But through that, I’ve also, they’ve sat down with a number of people to understand what. Else they do apart from retail banking.

There was the commercial side of banking. There was a foreign exchange part of banking. So that was at the time when French francs was there, Deutsche marks, you know, and a lot of conversions, tourists coming in, they would exchange currency and such as well. So there was so much to learn, which I learned that I would not have learned.

from the outside world as a young kid, you’d always see there’s always retail banking. You didn’t realize there’s a whole world beyond that. So that kind of opened up my doors after two weeks thinking, oh, you know, there’s an opportunity for me to go there. And on my last day of my work experience, obviously they bought me gifts and here’s a 15 year old boy with a shirt and tie and suit, you know, going into the office.

And, and obviously they were like, Oh, if you need a job, you can always come back to us and stuff. I thought that was encouraging. So So, yeah, so I thought, all right, that’s great. So after my GCSEs were done, got my GCSEs. So I had two options. So A, I was living Hackney. It wasn’t the best places to live at the time.

So…

Charles James: I have another guest that said the same thing!

Fox Ahmed: You know, and so I had a choice whether I can go ahead and pursue a career somewhere else before I go into college to determine whether. you know, what I like or not. A lot of my friends were going to college. A lot of the colleges at the time in the location we were in the subjects weren’t too great.

You hear stories from you know, friends and stuff saying, you know, the college is not the best of places there to be because of, you know…

Charles James: just because of the, if it was the eighties and or the nineties and just. Being around.

Fox Ahmed: Yeah.

Charles James: Hackney and all the nonsense that goes with it. I suppose.

Fox Ahmed: Absolutely. And then you could easily fool yourself into a wrong crowd. So so yeah, so what I did I went to, so at the time in the nineties there was recruitment agencies. Manpower. There was a lot of them around looking for you know, administrative jobs, school leavers and such. So I polished up my CV in my old PC who at Packard, so…

Charles James: Went to school over his did some work experience.

Fox Ahmed: Absolutely. So, you know…

Charles James: Willing to do anything.

Fox Ahmed: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So yeah, as a school, if you can’t really put much apart from your extra curriculum activities you’ve done and and the, and the school I went to was really good in terms of, you know educating youngsters, what they can upon the CV.

So I went there, put my CV in a couple of days later, got a call for an interview. To NatWest, went through the interview rounds and they managed to successfully got the job. First role was within payments industry, so payments is still a huge industry right now.

Charles James: Yeah. That’s, that’s my day job type thing.

Fox Ahmed: Exactly. So so, and we started, and our work and the head office was based in Kings Cross. So it wasn’t too far, but Kings Cross really wasn’t a really pleasant area at the time. Right. So and…

Charles James: Have you seen it lately?

Fox Ahmed: Yeah, I’ve got past it. Yeah. And it’s changed.

Charles James: Oh, it’s nice.

Fox Ahmed: It’s, it’s a place now I can take my kids and explore.

Charles James: Yeah, it was great restaurants as well. I know it’s like going off subject, but great restaurants and great shops. And some people travel down to go, Oh, we’ll go to Kings Cross.

Fox Ahmed: Absolutely.

Charles James: For a night out. And you’re like, okay, then fantastic.

Fox Ahmed: Yeah, I’ll go to Kings Cross. I just was in Kings Cross yesterday, come back from the Eurostar. And it’s, yeah, it’s, yeah. Changed a lot.

Charles James: Yeah. I like it.

Fox Ahmed: There’s even London bridge.

Charles James: There’s a Sri Lankan restaurant there. I went to, I can’t remember the name of it. My sister, I met my sister in there and food was awesome. It really was. I can’t remember. Anyway.

Fox Ahmed: Don’t tempt me. I’m already putting a lot of weight.

Charles James: Okay. So I’m going to take you back a little bit now. Some of the things that interest me and we, we hear the, the sort of the automated AI recruitment. Bots are out there. Yeah. Now you’ve got a name Fox Ahmed.

Fox Ahmed: That’s right.

Charles James: Yeah. My name’s Charles James.

Fox Ahmed: Yeah.

Charles James: If people and there is a story about me in the bank of England when before linkedin was a thing and someone was looking for some white guy called Charles James.

And it goes on to a couple of questions, but we won’t go there right now. But it seemed like that because. He didn’t face any sort of Fox Ahmed. We didn’t have a I back then, but you’re still given the opportunity to interview and you still have the opportunity to have those discussions. And it wasn’t a barrier.

Fox Ahmed: No. So I reckon it wasn’t a barrier for so working for now where I’ve actually so the heart. So the department head she was also half Egyptian. So she and obviously when I worked in there, there was a good diverse number of people, there’s people who I’m still friends with that I’ve worked with since then.

And yeah, they’re probably going to listen to this podcast as well. So, but they’ve been an advocate and an ally of me since then. But in terms of the naming, you know, when I went in there, there were also. people’s names, like sounds very foreign than my name as well, who were also working there. So I think back then, you know, there, there was a, you know, when there are people of, of position who are from different race and ethnicity, they, they, they don’t see that, they don’t see the name as a, you know, barrier.

They’re trying to say, right, is this person right fit? And I think that’s the way which I understood when I got there, because my role was a very, very junior role, right? So so yeah, I think that kind of helped.

Charles James: And that was in the 90s. And again, because I’m slightly older, I can sort of think back to the mid 80s, early 90s. And, where sometimes not saying all the time, but it may have been a barrier because you didn’t have a a computer or whatever you might’ve had a human goes up and we’ve heard the stories and we’ve seen the outcomes. So I just wanted to touch on that a little bit. So you, you have your friends and you’re doing stuff and you’re like, do you know what I’m learning?

I’m earning. I’m getting my, my, my, my, my threads from the local shops. I’m looking cool. As we all. Used to do, I think in the nineties. And then IT how’d you go from payments into it?

Fox Ahmed: I did a lot of self-learning.

Charles James: Yep.

Fox Ahmed: At the time. So my knowledge was picking up based on the industry that was happening at the time.

Right. So. My personal interest always kept going on, you know, as you would do, you, you listen to the news, you’ll try and do your own stuff and, you know, build your own gaming PCs and stuff and as well and stuff. And then mobile phones became a thing with, you know, smartphones. We hadn’t, you know, Nokia then.

Charles James: And I was going to sort of say about You know, how you go from a HP big old box with a tower.

Fox Ahmed: Yes, that’s right.

Charles James: With a tower. And, you know, how technology has changed in 30 years. You know, technology always moves. Every day it always moves. And I always use the old adage that, you know, have you still got the same phone you had three, four years ago? No, you don’t.

Fox Ahmed: Yeah.

Charles James: You’re always upgrading it because it’s always changing and there’s new technology and that’s the same in IT.

Fox Ahmed: Yeah.

Charles James: That’s the same in the whether it’s the working environment. That’s the same in, in the threats as well. The threats that come along. And again, we’ll touch on, you know, our cyber security stuff, but understood.

So you type of person that wanted to know, learn more. You wanted to understand more. You wanted to get into the nuts and bolts of a PC. Which is quite endearing. So It sort of brings me on to the next question, and it’s about the workplace again. So there’s Fox, a young Fox, and he’s, he’s, he’s, you know, doing great in the payments bit.

And he’s, he’s got this eye looking at how do you do this? And why do you do that? And why does that do that? And asking those questions. So when you went for that, Did you go for an internal job at NatWest?

Fox Ahmed: So, yeah, so I think from the payments world, I did a number. So from the payments world, I had a huge number of opportunities within the bank.

And I was fortunate enough to go through to have different roles. One of the roles which I did was a lot of digital and operation transformation stuff. So it wasn’t called digital at the time. It’s called more technology operations. So throughout my journey, I did, extracurriculum kind of certifications.

So I ended up being a Lean Six Sigma black belt qualified project. Yeah. So there’s a Lean Six Sigma, there’s yellow, there’s green, then there’s black belt. And in order to achieve the accreditation, you need to present a on a black belt, a kind of a significant project, which is also saving money and cost, and also having process efficiency, like operational efficiency in place as well.

And you have to go for an interview, right? So that’s the process. And it was through an external association called the British Quality Foundation which I had to go present my case in terms of my project deliverables and, and the, and the methodology and approach. So there’s a lot of stuff going in there.

So how I got to Cyber security. So it wasn’t called cyber security then. It’s mostly technology risks and you know, so yeah, so, so throughout the kind of mergers and acquisitions, which I helped support the integrations of platforms and systems, then also the internet age happened. So you had your traditional banks, right?

Who are now opening up their infrastructure and data to allow people to access the internet through a web browser to look at the transactions. make applications. And we were supporting the design and operations and how that’s going to work as well. And the questions I have is the, what if, what if a client’s username or password gets breached, what happens, what, you know, and it’s the, what ifs from the external perspective, the in terms of the external threat landscape and internally as well, which helped me kind of understand a bit more about the technology risk and controls we need to put in place through the encryption and everything else.

Charles James: So when you’re looking at internal risks from third parties, when you’re adding let me think about it a minute. I’m just, I’m trying to draw a picture on my head cause I speak about this all the time, but yeah, third party risk. What if from, from coding adding applications you know, it’s a thing okay, you don’t write the code, but you’re, you’re responsible for if you bring in a new application that that code is secure.

And how do you know what happens and what, how to do that, the, the process around that as well about bringing in third party applications. Yeah, it’s, it’s a absolute minefield because while you’re doing that, our friends, the nice Mr. Hacker is always trying to think of a backdoor.

Fox Ahmed: Absolutely

Charles James: Always trying to put let’s say when you do develop write code and you do development well like that, and you go to a library to get that code you know, they chuck that in there and yeah.

See what happens. And I’ll come back to it in, you know, six months time and see where it, this is the world we live in.

Fox Ahmed: Absolutely.

Charles James: Yeah. And I get that. So…

Fox Ahmed: But you’ve gotta recognize as well that. So early 2000, when the banks were starting to open up their own infrastructure, there wasn’t this whole need of third party, there wasn’t, you know, everything was closed in house, right?

Hardware, data centers, everything. So then slowly over time, you know, outsourcing became a thing less costs shared risk. So yeah, so you kind of see the threat landscape kind of changing over time when you look at from the internet age, then the, you know, opening up your platforms and introducing third party vendors to kind of support your processes, you know, through certain things.

So a lot has changed over the decade, but. I’m sure we can cover it. So yeah, so my, my staging to get into technology. So through the project management, deliverables went into risk as a technology risk and control area, looking at, you know, what you essentially do now in cybersecurity, looking at our technology risk posture internally, what’s our inherent risk, residual risk, where we apply certain controls.

And there’s a whole different world out there, you know, so. Yeah.

Charles James: We’re yeah, yeah, we’re there good. We’re gonna kick off. We’ll be back. I’m gonna take a break and we’ll be back after these short words

Silk Cyber Security: This episode was brought to you by Silk Cyber Security part of salt group you specialize in providing trust across digital channels by helping major financial institutions verify the identity of their users and authenticating high value transactions in the UK and globally.

Charles James: And welcome back again to Cyber Glass Ceiling, my autumn series. And we’ve been still at Fox, Fox Ahmed from BNP Paribas. We’ve spoken a lot about how you as an individual have Looked after yourself, encourage yourself to learn more, do more understand more about the business that we’re in and what you do, hence why you’re the head of.

So, you know, at work, what do you regularly do to promote yourself?

Fox Ahmed: So, and I think this is another one which is again, not a straightforward answer. So I have different allies in the workforce different professional coaches, I would say, which is, I would explain in detail in that in a bit.

So, in terms of promoting myself, I ensure that I always go the extra mile in terms of what I need to do. I have a lot of transversal skills which from my past roles, which I can bring to the table to to help kind of promote myself. So if there is a situation where which allows for me to apply my knowledge and skill into, you know, help supporting the team.

Charles James: Yeah.

Fox Ahmed: I would do that. I’ll kind of put myself forward to say, you know what? This is an area which I can probably help contribute to your stuff and, and do. Have you got an example? So, when, so, so an example of me pushing myself. So I would say… So a lot of the, the work we deal with at the moment is more strategic in nature.

How do we help shape the, the work the operating model of the work as well, or transformational elements. So in terms of my knowledge that, You know, if you’re working through the banking sector for, I think for now, 25 plus years you, you get to…

Charles James: Still look like a puppy.

Fox Ahmed: It’s the the oil of ULA, you know, yeah.

So so yeah, so I think with the knowledge gained I, I would then able to then articulate and express to the people who are working different kind of projects and programs to kind of contribute to the efforts of what they needed and provide a different perspective and lens. Cause sometimes some of the people that may not have a particular knowledge area or a more panoramic view of everything else that’s going on.

Cause right now you mentioned you’ve got AI, you’ve got machine learning, you’ve got quant, you know, quantum computing and everyone’s looking at, Oh, my gosh, what do we do in terms of preparedness.

Charles James: As we know, banks, we have diverse customers. They’re not all the same. And, you know, I make this running joke about the white guys in bad T shirts or ponytails. And bringing people into the workforce that are mirrored of your customers makes for a better workforce, makes for a better understanding of how a, a, a bank should move forward. Absolutely. In, in, in some sense. And I’ve been working in, in this industry of security stroke, Microsoft stroke salesy type thing for, you know, I’d say a bit longer than 25 years.

And, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen the change and. You’re right, a lot more still needs to happen and you know, it’s up to us, it’s our responsibility to understand that, you know, being different, whether it’s neurodiverse, whether it’s being, you know, from the LGBTQ community or, or black, Asian, female, it don’t matter, we’re all people, and it’s how, how can we represent that within our workforce?

Fox Ahmed: So I think one of the things that helps a lot. is by representation. So if you have people of you know, different race, ethnicity and stuff, they see a colored person in a leadership role, they’ll aspire to that thinking actually there is an opportunity if I, you know, tick all the boxes, work well as such, that there is an opportunity and a pathway to get to that kind of leadership role.

So, so within My role, I also do a lot of diversity kind of outreach as well. We’ve got a college coming from an area which is has a lot of it’s an underrepresented community, meaning, meaning the fact that they have parents who may not have gone to university parents who may not work in a corporate environment.

They don’t get to see the whole… You know, the, the, you know, the people of color in the workforce, you know, they probably see retail and other areas and figure out that’s the area they want to go to. So we kind of get the students in here to actually, there’s another world we have, we have a whole range of different kind of leaders from different parts of the world, you know, and.

That kind of then puts some sort of aspiration to the youngsters to think, actually it’s not as black and white as we will see in the, you know, sometimes in the news and the media that there isn’t opportunities and stuff, but there is another world out there which, you know, we encourage to, you know from, from the young age to, to get them to understand there is, you know, opportunities out there.

Charles James: Absolutely. And, you know, a lot of, well, everybody I’ve interviewed and are interviewing. Have that drive and determination. You’ve got it. Yeah, that drive and determination. Anyone was doing masters when you got three little boys, but that drive and determination and that sets people like yourself and my other guests apart from other people because we recognize and you know, we’ll touch on it again, but sometimes we’ve gotta do that, go that extra mile, do that extra thing to be recognized by our peers. And you think, well, who are our peers? And, you know, as, as we get older, as, as, as we come into 2024, you know, we, we, I can still look at the tier one banks and our people of color on that board. Probably not. Will it happen in 10 years time?

Probably will. You never know.

Fox Ahmed: You may see me on one of them.

Charles James: Exactly. Good person to know, Fox. So, for me, it’s exciting times. Yeah, again, this whole podcast is not about a bitch fest. When I say that, it’s about celebrating the fact that a young boy from Hackney has challenged himself and has driven himself to, to do what he does and is at the top of his game.

It brings me on to the last few questions. We’re both in cyber security. So what practical advice would you give your family and friends looking to looking at the front landscape as it is?

Fox Ahmed: So with this one, so I was thinking about it, thinking there’s different threat landscapes from the younger generation of the kids to the adults.

So the threat landscape is different, so you’ve got to educate them differently, right? So as a good example my young kids, they’ve all got a tablet. Unfortunately and they’re always on YouTube or playing Roblox or Minecraft and Roblox and Minecraft is good for educational awareness , as well. They have fun, but there’s, there’s things they learn for it as well.

But then what I’ve observed is they’ll get YouTube ads pop up here and there. You can’t control the YouTube ads as much as you could do that come through. And some of these ads, you know, they could be attempts to gather information, data. So it’s more or less educating to say, wherever, where it looks appealing, but they may win Robux, don’t click on it.

So, you know, do not go ahead and click on it, then go and ask your parents for money and stuff just to buy the credit. So, so their threat landscape is a lot more different than I would say our generation or the older as well. So yeah, it’s more about educating them. For them not to click on links and it’s the tablets or download anything as well.

That may look appealing for my friends. I would the sevens on WhatsApp, they’re on different communication platforms they’re all in different professional roles. Some have really great knowledge. Some who may not have the, you know, the knowledge needed to understand, you know, what is a risks that need to look out for.

So. For us at this age, I think HMRC text messages that come along where you can get a refund of X amount of money if you’re not clicking it. So wherever that, that you find that is too good to be true.

Charles James: Yeah, I say to my kids, look, you didn’t win shit, don’t click on it. Yeah, exactly. You’re not going to stop the bad actors from doing what bad actors do.

Absolutely. But what we can do is just keep them educated. Don’t click on shit.

Fox Ahmed: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Charles James: And that’s it. What would you give? advice to your 20 year old self. So hi Fox, you’re 20 years old. What was the advice you now would give him? Looking back at your career, not that you’re going to finish your career anytime soon, but like.

Fox Ahmed: Oh, that is an interesting Charles.

Charles James: So I’ve messed around with the questions a little bit.

Fox Ahmed: Yeah, that’s fine. So it’s it’s not going to be an Easy journey, meaning you’ll love it and hate it at the same time. Same with Marmot, you either love it or you hate it. I quite like Marmot. Yeah, so you love it. So, but the journey to get here, you’re continuously learning.

You, you have to build up a lot of knowledge and have different skill sets. So in our industry, you know, apart from the technical side, you’ve got to have communication skills. You’re going to have reporting skills. You’ve got to be able to articulate the technical skill, technical. Text into business text to keep it simplified as well.

Problem solving. And I think that’s probably one of the things I’ll probably when I’m younger self is probably like problem solving. I think that’s what we’re in cybersecurity. That’s what we do, right? We, there’s an issue. There’s a risk. How do we solve the problem? And you need to think, you know, have methodologies approaches in place to understand how can we fix the problem.

But one of the thing is. I will always say is, and I think, you know, one of my mentors kept saying it as well. I think it’s people or stakeholder management, you can have the best processes, best tool, right? But if the people don’t use it or the people don’t know how to use it or not knowledgeable, they won’t be able to use the thing.

So I think understanding, you know, how to build relationships, influencing, learn all of the softer skills as well. And also. technical skills you learn along the journey, but the technical skills will be based on different segments of what you want your career to start off with.

Charles James: I don’t know what you, what do you do for fun? Because you’ve got three boys, you’ve done your masters you travel a lot for work. So what’s the fun in it?

Fox Ahmed: I would say when I get the opportunity, I have a gaming PC in my room, I go up on Call of Duty. Oh dear. And I can’t play Call of Duty right now because you get the youngsters come in and as soon as I land, I’m, I’m out.

I’m trying to get back into running. So before the kids, I used to do run as well. So in Paris yesterday I did a 10K run.

Charles James: Are you, are you kidding me?

Fox Ahmed: I’m not, I can show you the picture and, and I was there and I’m thinking, you know what? I can see Eiffel Tower in the distance.

Charles James: Final question. This is about you, not me and my love of Parisians. Your USP, what would you say your USP is, your unique selling point?

Fox Ahmed: So my unique selling point right now is that I’m able to kind of, in my role, understand from the business perspective of what they want to do in order for the technology to apply a certain perspective. Because sometimes when you’re working in technology, you kind of lose the whole focus of… your clientele, what is it that the business wants. We’re applying a lot of pressure. We want to add this, we want to add this. You could slow the process. They want to be able to fast on board clients, be very agile. You know, they’ve got competition against peer banks. So I think it’s the ability to help understand what the business needs, articulate it in a way back to the technologist.

Because there’s, I kid you not, there’s probably like different languages that the business and technology speak. So you need somebody in the middle to put it all together and stuff. And you know so, yeah, so I think with that, there’s, you know all the transversal skills, all the non technology skills, I would say is important.

I’ll go back to communication skills. is important, report writing is important, you know stakeholder management is one of the biggest areas I would say, like, if you’re going, if you’re, you know, getting into it, that’s, it’s still important, you know, so that’s my unique selling point.

Charles James: Awesome. Fox, it’s been a pleasure.

Fox Ahmed: Thanks for having me, Charles.

Charles James: Thank you. Thank you for joining me in the studio. Everybody, Fox Ahmed. Thank you for being on Cyber Glass Ceiling.

Fox Ahmed: Thank you, Charles.

Salt Cyber Security: This episode was brought to you by Salt Cyber Security, part of Salt Group, who specialise in providing trust. across digital channels by helping major financial institutions verify the identity of their users and authenticating high value transactions in the UK and globally.

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